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	<title>Comments on: Nathan Langston: Dancing About Architecture</title>
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		<title>By: Nathan Langston</title>
		<link>https://391.b00.mywebsitetransfer.com/discussion-nathan-langston/#comment-3038</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan Langston]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2012 23:41:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artequalstext.aboutdrawing.org/?p=2382#comment-3038</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Maybe, Bob, maybe. I like that you use the &lt;i&gt; programming language for italics because when me and and my buddies compose a score, it&#039;s very much like programming. We write all the notes down as though it&#039;s computer code and then the computer plays it back for us (in MIDI) as an exact and lifeless translation of how those notes sound. You really cannot know how the ACTUAL music sounds until a real human being translates it through their fingers, arms, wrists, lips, and breath. It&#039;s only in that translation that a work gains &quot;life.&quot; 

In this sense, I really like that the Hebrew word for &quot;Life,&quot; &quot;Wind,&quot; and &quot;Breath&quot; are all synonymous! ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe, Bob, maybe. I like that you use the <i> programming language for italics because when me and and my buddies compose a score, it&#8217;s very much like programming. We write all the notes down as though it&#8217;s computer code and then the computer plays it back for us (in MIDI) as an exact and lifeless translation of how those notes sound. You really cannot know how the ACTUAL music sounds until a real human being translates it through their fingers, arms, wrists, lips, and breath. It&#8217;s only in that translation that a work gains &#8220;life.&#8221; </p>
<p>In this sense, I really like that the Hebrew word for &#8220;Life,&#8221; &#8220;Wind,&#8221; and &#8220;Breath&#8221; are all synonymous! </i></p>
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		<title>By: Bob Grumman</title>
		<link>https://391.b00.mywebsitetransfer.com/discussion-nathan-langston/#comment-3001</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob Grumman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2012 16:28:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artequalstext.aboutdrawing.org/?p=2382#comment-3001</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I suddenly realized something comic about writing about music: it is that it is the &lt;i&gt;easiest&lt;/i&gt; art to write quite accurately about--that&#039;s because of something called a &quot;score.&quot;  What is that but writing about music?
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suddenly realized something comic about writing about music: it is that it is the <i>easiest</i> art to write quite accurately about&#8211;that&#8217;s because of something called a &#8220;score.&#8221;  What is that but writing about music?</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Langston</title>
		<link>https://391.b00.mywebsitetransfer.com/discussion-nathan-langston/#comment-2957</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan Langston]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2012 02:41:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artequalstext.aboutdrawing.org/?p=2382#comment-2957</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Whoa! That&#039;s a burly chunk of text. I&#039;ve read it three times and will have to read it more to get everything! Firstly, you&#039;re right to say that ekphrasis isn&#039;t just a straight translation, the &quot;=&quot; is actually the PERSON or personal associations doing the the translation from one form to another. So one of my favorite poets is Lorca but my Spanish sucks so I use translations, sometimes I use a few so as to triangulate the original. One translation says a line means &quot;Heaven Murdered One!&quot; The next translation translates that same Spanish line as &quot;The Sky Cut Me Down!&quot; They&#039;re both burly but obviously each translator is injecting their own take on the line. So translation in art also means a simultaneous accumulation and loss of parts of the meaning. When you translate from one form to another, you take on some information and you lose some information from the orignal. So the &quot;=&quot; includes both a &quot;+&quot; and a &quot;-&quot; simultaneously. 

As for the building analogy from Aldo Rossi, I&#039;m not sure that I get it. Do you mean that, over time, a bank gets translated or interpreted into a drugstore? You&#039;re going to have to explain that in plainer language for me to &quot;get it.&quot; Ha! ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoa! That&#8217;s a burly chunk of text. I&#8217;ve read it three times and will have to read it more to get everything! Firstly, you&#8217;re right to say that ekphrasis isn&#8217;t just a straight translation, the &#8220;=&#8221; is actually the PERSON or personal associations doing the the translation from one form to another. So one of my favorite poets is Lorca but my Spanish sucks so I use translations, sometimes I use a few so as to triangulate the original. One translation says a line means &#8220;Heaven Murdered One!&#8221; The next translation translates that same Spanish line as &#8220;The Sky Cut Me Down!&#8221; They&#8217;re both burly but obviously each translator is injecting their own take on the line. So translation in art also means a simultaneous accumulation and loss of parts of the meaning. When you translate from one form to another, you take on some information and you lose some information from the orignal. So the &#8220;=&#8221; includes both a &#8220;+&#8221; and a &#8220;-&#8221; simultaneously. </p>
<p>As for the building analogy from Aldo Rossi, I&#8217;m not sure that I get it. Do you mean that, over time, a bank gets translated or interpreted into a drugstore? You&#8217;re going to have to explain that in plainer language for me to &#8220;get it.&#8221; Ha! </p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Draper</title>
		<link>https://391.b00.mywebsitetransfer.com/discussion-nathan-langston/#comment-2956</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Draper]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Sep 2012 02:28:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artequalstext.aboutdrawing.org/?p=2382#comment-2956</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jeffrey&#039;s idea of &quot;silent meaning&quot; has me thinking of the role of the symbol in visual art, where the conveyance of meaning is a hybrid of the descriptive and the experiential. Take Giorgio de Chirico&#039;s &quot;Delights of the Poet&quot;: even the title of the work indicates that the artist knew that placing a chuffing train on the far horizon would draw from the viewer&#039;s mind more than thoughts associated with the clashing perspectives and the stasis of the architecture vs. the hot, charging machine. The train draws to mind the highly grammatical, mechanized text of train schedules and the unique text of the ticket with a seat, a time, a passenger. I might dangerously contend that &quot;art=text&quot; is the underlying equation of the symbol. Elena del Rivero&#039;s piece in this exhibition, to my eye, appears to engage this directly: &quot;No&quot; is mimetic of refusal, but also an aniline symbol of two viewpoints being present at the same time - bridged by spoken language. Each &quot;No&quot; looks to me like the individual puffs of the train in de Chirico&#039;s work: the wordless conveyance of visual meaning that talks a constrained language at the same time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeffrey&#8217;s idea of &#8220;silent meaning&#8221; has me thinking of the role of the symbol in visual art, where the conveyance of meaning is a hybrid of the descriptive and the experiential. Take Giorgio de Chirico&#8217;s &#8220;Delights of the Poet&#8221;: even the title of the work indicates that the artist knew that placing a chuffing train on the far horizon would draw from the viewer&#8217;s mind more than thoughts associated with the clashing perspectives and the stasis of the architecture vs. the hot, charging machine. The train draws to mind the highly grammatical, mechanized text of train schedules and the unique text of the ticket with a seat, a time, a passenger. I might dangerously contend that &#8220;art=text&#8221; is the underlying equation of the symbol. Elena del Rivero&#8217;s piece in this exhibition, to my eye, appears to engage this directly: &#8220;No&#8221; is mimetic of refusal, but also an aniline symbol of two viewpoints being present at the same time &#8211; bridged by spoken language. Each &#8220;No&#8221; looks to me like the individual puffs of the train in de Chirico&#8217;s work: the wordless conveyance of visual meaning that talks a constrained language at the same time.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Draper</title>
		<link>https://391.b00.mywebsitetransfer.com/discussion-nathan-langston/#comment-2955</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Draper]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Sep 2012 01:42:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artequalstext.aboutdrawing.org/?p=2382#comment-2955</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would contend that grammar is seductive because of its diagrammatic structure, but the text is still a frail container for any meaning that could be carried across the &quot;=&quot; sign. Language is really the tool of a thinking game, the game of description. If we see it that way, it can be disappointing that text deconstructs at nearly the first tap against the cultural context in which it was generated, and yet, in the context of visual art, this same quality is usually experienced with pleasure. So this conversation has definitely got me thinking about the underlying differences in expectations about the nature of communication with the two vehicles of text and art. Is the exercise of Ekphrasis meant to convey in words a description of the artwork that would be adequate to duplicate the viewer&#039;s experience? That seems to be the idea at play; but if that&#039;s all it is, then the exercise would just be the act of translating, even if it&#039;s an especially tough one of bridging description to experience. Seems to me, the really nefarious aspect of the Ekphrasis exercise is that it poses a very unique challenge: the orator must find a point at which to position themselves from which the hearer can successfully understand the limitations of the language specific to its description of the work at hand. If the object is an architectural artifact for instance, this challenge was addressed by Aldo Rossi, (&quot;Architecture of the City&quot;): for a building that exists in an urban fabric, the language we use to describe it has no firm basis if it&#039;s constrained to capturing the object qualities of the building: we have to position ourselves, and the artifact, in the social context where we&#039;re present. Rossi writes, &quot;the study of social content must precede the description of the geographical artifacts that ultimately give the urban landscape its meaning.&quot; Another way of saying, that a building that was once a bank might now be a drug store, and this fact determines the starting point from which description could occur.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would contend that grammar is seductive because of its diagrammatic structure, but the text is still a frail container for any meaning that could be carried across the &#8220;=&#8221; sign. Language is really the tool of a thinking game, the game of description. If we see it that way, it can be disappointing that text deconstructs at nearly the first tap against the cultural context in which it was generated, and yet, in the context of visual art, this same quality is usually experienced with pleasure. So this conversation has definitely got me thinking about the underlying differences in expectations about the nature of communication with the two vehicles of text and art. Is the exercise of Ekphrasis meant to convey in words a description of the artwork that would be adequate to duplicate the viewer&#8217;s experience? That seems to be the idea at play; but if that&#8217;s all it is, then the exercise would just be the act of translating, even if it&#8217;s an especially tough one of bridging description to experience. Seems to me, the really nefarious aspect of the Ekphrasis exercise is that it poses a very unique challenge: the orator must find a point at which to position themselves from which the hearer can successfully understand the limitations of the language specific to its description of the work at hand. If the object is an architectural artifact for instance, this challenge was addressed by Aldo Rossi, (&#8220;Architecture of the City&#8221;): for a building that exists in an urban fabric, the language we use to describe it has no firm basis if it&#8217;s constrained to capturing the object qualities of the building: we have to position ourselves, and the artifact, in the social context where we&#8217;re present. Rossi writes, &#8220;the study of social content must precede the description of the geographical artifacts that ultimately give the urban landscape its meaning.&#8221; Another way of saying, that a building that was once a bank might now be a drug store, and this fact determines the starting point from which description could occur.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Langston</title>
		<link>https://391.b00.mywebsitetransfer.com/discussion-nathan-langston/#comment-2954</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan Langston]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 16:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artequalstext.aboutdrawing.org/?p=2382#comment-2954</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just keep finding incredible gems in this catalogue! The writers of these essays are absolutely brilliant! 

So the other day, the Columbian artist Gloria Ortiz-Hernandez came into the office to show my boss Wynn some astonishing new work she&#039;s been doing. Gloria is such a wonderfully funny and almost regal lady and the new work she showed us blew my mind (also: does anyone want to lend me a bunch of money so I can get one?)! I wanted to see what had been written about her work in Art=Text=Art and found this splendid insight from Sussana Temkin: 

&quot;Returning to the original Latin, the word &#039;text&#039; originally derived from the past participle of &#039;texere,&#039; meaning to weave or to fabricate.&quot; 

How amazing is that! In a synaesthetic, ekphrastic sense, we can think of language as a textural material that we are weaving. So when a &quot;word-smith&quot; &quot;spins a yarn&quot; in order to &quot;weave a tale,&quot; they are treating language as a physical substance rather than a representative concept. This &quot;ties in&quot; very nicely with the work of Lenore Tawney, who was one of the most prominent and flabbergasting high-art weavers of the 20th century!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just keep finding incredible gems in this catalogue! The writers of these essays are absolutely brilliant! </p>
<p>So the other day, the Columbian artist Gloria Ortiz-Hernandez came into the office to show my boss Wynn some astonishing new work she&#8217;s been doing. Gloria is such a wonderfully funny and almost regal lady and the new work she showed us blew my mind (also: does anyone want to lend me a bunch of money so I can get one?)! I wanted to see what had been written about her work in Art=Text=Art and found this splendid insight from Sussana Temkin: </p>
<p>&#8220;Returning to the original Latin, the word &#8216;text&#8217; originally derived from the past participle of &#8216;texere,&#8217; meaning to weave or to fabricate.&#8221; </p>
<p>How amazing is that! In a synaesthetic, ekphrastic sense, we can think of language as a textural material that we are weaving. So when a &#8220;word-smith&#8221; &#8220;spins a yarn&#8221; in order to &#8220;weave a tale,&#8221; they are treating language as a physical substance rather than a representative concept. This &#8220;ties in&#8221; very nicely with the work of Lenore Tawney, who was one of the most prominent and flabbergasting high-art weavers of the 20th century!</p>
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		<title>By: About Drawing</title>
		<link>https://391.b00.mywebsitetransfer.com/discussion-nathan-langston/#comment-2953</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[About Drawing]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 19:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artequalstext.aboutdrawing.org/?p=2382#comment-2953</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So we&#039;ve had some really spectacular threads started, which we&#039;d like to keep going. But it might be good to mention the title of this discussion, &quot;Dancing About Architecture.&quot; In 1979, rock critic Gary Sperazza was reviewing a record and wrote, &quot;All quick, very natural, and captured on vinyl. It’s so hard to explain on paper, you’ll just have to find the records and listen for yourself (because I truly believe – honest – that writing about music is, as Martin Mull put, like dancing about architecture.)&quot; The same year, in Arts Magazine, Thomas McGonigle was writing about the painter Michael Madore and wrote, &quot;So with Madore we have the classic situation: no limits, thus all limits, or to slightly alter the famous Martin Mull dictum: Writing about painting is like dancing about architecture.&quot; 

Actually, they&#039;re both wrong. This marvelous simile was coined as far back (and probably further) as 1918, when a critic in New Republic wrote, “Strictly considered, writing about music is as illogical as singing about economics.” There&#039;s others! “Writing about art is like knitting about music.” Or, “Talking about music is like singing about football.” You get the idea. It&#039;s incredibly difficult to translate information from one form of conveyance to another. Of course, people do it all the time, to wildly varying degrees of success. This Art=Text=Art catalogue is overflowing with scholars writing about art. But it also includes poets trying to interpret some of the visual works INTO text, both as poetry or short fiction, or musicians trying to interpret some of the visual works INTO music. 

Let&#039;s do a little thinking about how that act of translation happens.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So we&#8217;ve had some really spectacular threads started, which we&#8217;d like to keep going. But it might be good to mention the title of this discussion, &#8220;Dancing About Architecture.&#8221; In 1979, rock critic Gary Sperazza was reviewing a record and wrote, &#8220;All quick, very natural, and captured on vinyl. It’s so hard to explain on paper, you’ll just have to find the records and listen for yourself (because I truly believe – honest – that writing about music is, as Martin Mull put, like dancing about architecture.)&#8221; The same year, in Arts Magazine, Thomas McGonigle was writing about the painter Michael Madore and wrote, &#8220;So with Madore we have the classic situation: no limits, thus all limits, or to slightly alter the famous Martin Mull dictum: Writing about painting is like dancing about architecture.&#8221; </p>
<p>Actually, they&#8217;re both wrong. This marvelous simile was coined as far back (and probably further) as 1918, when a critic in New Republic wrote, “Strictly considered, writing about music is as illogical as singing about economics.” There&#8217;s others! “Writing about art is like knitting about music.” Or, “Talking about music is like singing about football.” You get the idea. It&#8217;s incredibly difficult to translate information from one form of conveyance to another. Of course, people do it all the time, to wildly varying degrees of success. This Art=Text=Art catalogue is overflowing with scholars writing about art. But it also includes poets trying to interpret some of the visual works INTO text, both as poetry or short fiction, or musicians trying to interpret some of the visual works INTO music. </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s do a little thinking about how that act of translation happens.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Langston</title>
		<link>https://391.b00.mywebsitetransfer.com/discussion-nathan-langston/#comment-2952</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan Langston]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 18:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artequalstext.aboutdrawing.org/?p=2382#comment-2952</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@[655391730:2048:Karen L Schiff], I like nerding out about the fundamental mechanics of these forms. So there certainly are differences in both mechanics and of tradition between text and visual art. But one of my favorite quotes from the book &quot;The Glass Bead Game,&quot; is when the main character&#039;s teacher says, &quot;Our mission is to recognize contraries for what they are: first of all as contraries but then as opposite poles of a unity.&quot; 

So there are a lot of important similarities and overlap between text (language) and visual art. Like a mark or a dab of paint, a word is always a physical thing that takes up space, unless it&#039;s spoken and then it&#039;s physical in terms of the vibrating air that&#039;s hitting the hairs of the inner ear (Hmm... but now I&#039;m thinking a word and that&#039;s not physical... hmm). So Carl Andre&#039;s &quot;now now&quot; uses a word as a physical, visible mark. Both visual and text can represent or conjure something specific like the word &quot;Butterfly&quot; and the butterfly in Jane Hammond&#039;s &quot;Four Ways to Blue.&quot; Then there&#039;s the way poets play with space and movement of the eyes, like Michael Strauss&#039;s poem response to Lawrence Weiner&#039;s work or Bronlyn Jones&#039;s &quot;Erasure List.&quot; 

Other ways that visual art and text do the same thing? ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@[655391730:2048:Karen L Schiff], I like nerding out about the fundamental mechanics of these forms. So there certainly are differences in both mechanics and of tradition between text and visual art. But one of my favorite quotes from the book &#8220;The Glass Bead Game,&#8221; is when the main character&#8217;s teacher says, &#8220;Our mission is to recognize contraries for what they are: first of all as contraries but then as opposite poles of a unity.&#8221; </p>
<p>So there are a lot of important similarities and overlap between text (language) and visual art. Like a mark or a dab of paint, a word is always a physical thing that takes up space, unless it&#8217;s spoken and then it&#8217;s physical in terms of the vibrating air that&#8217;s hitting the hairs of the inner ear (Hmm&#8230; but now I&#8217;m thinking a word and that&#8217;s not physical&#8230; hmm). So Carl Andre&#8217;s &#8220;now now&#8221; uses a word as a physical, visible mark. Both visual and text can represent or conjure something specific like the word &#8220;Butterfly&#8221; and the butterfly in Jane Hammond&#8217;s &#8220;Four Ways to Blue.&#8221; Then there&#8217;s the way poets play with space and movement of the eyes, like Michael Strauss&#8217;s poem response to Lawrence Weiner&#8217;s work or Bronlyn Jones&#8217;s &#8220;Erasure List.&#8221; </p>
<p>Other ways that visual art and text do the same thing? </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nathan Langston</title>
		<link>https://391.b00.mywebsitetransfer.com/discussion-nathan-langston/#comment-2951</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan Langston]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 09:59:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artequalstext.aboutdrawing.org/?p=2382#comment-2951</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for posting Ariana! You should totally check out our conversation from last week, &quot;The Creative Potential of a Blank Sheet.&quot; It was by Marilyn Symmes, the curator responsible for installing all 109 of these works at the Zimmerli Art Museum. You can read it (and if you feel so inclined, still post) here: http://artequalstext.aboutdrawing.org/discussion-marilyn-symmes/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for posting Ariana! You should totally check out our conversation from last week, &#8220;The Creative Potential of a Blank Sheet.&#8221; It was by Marilyn Symmes, the curator responsible for installing all 109 of these works at the Zimmerli Art Museum. You can read it (and if you feel so inclined, still post) here: <a href="http://artequalstext.aboutdrawing.org/discussion-marilyn-symmes/" rel="nofollow">http://artequalstext.aboutdrawing.org/discussion-marilyn-symmes/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Langston</title>
		<link>https://391.b00.mywebsitetransfer.com/discussion-nathan-langston/#comment-2950</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan Langston]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 09:41:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artequalstext.aboutdrawing.org/?p=2382#comment-2950</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well Nick, I happen to know that you are not a visual artist as much as you are a musical composer but that you&#039;ve had a good deal of experience translating poetry and prose into musical scores. For one, you should check out what I&#039;ve been writing about with Travis (below) it. And also, I was wondering if you could take a second to describe the process of musical ekphrasis as it happens in your head.

Much like the comparison and contrasts Karen was making below between visual art and text, there are some things that music can do &quot;better&quot; or more easily that text and some things text can do more easily than music. For example, it would be really hard for music to show &quot;in front of&quot; or &quot;an apple sitting on a chair.&quot; Of course, if you&#039;ve ever read a piece of music criticism, you can see how rediculous some of the linguistic descriptions are of the emotional specificity (?) that  music can convey. 

So how do you translate from one to the other. How do you go about moving from text to music? ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Nick, I happen to know that you are not a visual artist as much as you are a musical composer but that you&#8217;ve had a good deal of experience translating poetry and prose into musical scores. For one, you should check out what I&#8217;ve been writing about with Travis (below) it. And also, I was wondering if you could take a second to describe the process of musical ekphrasis as it happens in your head.</p>
<p>Much like the comparison and contrasts Karen was making below between visual art and text, there are some things that music can do &#8220;better&#8221; or more easily that text and some things text can do more easily than music. For example, it would be really hard for music to show &#8220;in front of&#8221; or &#8220;an apple sitting on a chair.&#8221; Of course, if you&#8217;ve ever read a piece of music criticism, you can see how rediculous some of the linguistic descriptions are of the emotional specificity (?) that  music can convey. </p>
<p>So how do you translate from one to the other. How do you go about moving from text to music? </p>
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